8 Led
2018
8 Led
'18
9:17
Hi!
I installed the Knot 2.6.3 packages from PPA on Ubuntu 14.04. This
confuses the syslog logging. I am not sure but as I think the problem is
that Knot requires systemd for logging.
The problem is, that I do not see any logging of Knot in my
syslogserver, only in journald. Is this something special in Knot that
the logging is not forwarded to syslog?
Is it possible to use your Ubuntu Packages without systemd logging?
I think it would be better to build the packages on non-systemd distros
(ie Ubuntu 14.04) without systemd dependencies.
Thanks
Klaus
8 Led
8 Led
9:59
Hello,
usually rsyslog reads messages from journal. Maybe you are missing such
configuration?
Petr Špaček @ CZ.NIC
On 8.1.2018 09:17, Klaus Darilion wrote:
Hi!
I installed the Knot 2.6.3 packages from PPA on Ubuntu 14.04. This
confuses the syslog logging. I am not sure but as I think the problem is
that Knot requires systemd for logging.
The problem is, that I do not see any logging of Knot in my
syslogserver, only in journald. Is this something special in Knot that
the logging is not forwarded to syslog?
Is it possible to use your Ubuntu Packages without systemd logging?
I think it would be better to build the packages on non-systemd distros
(ie Ubuntu 14.04) without systemd dependencies.
Thanks
Klaus
10:44
Hi Klaus,
I understand your problem, but we cannot provide two sets of packages
(with/without systemd support enabled). "Unfortunately" the majority of users
need systemd enabled.
Regards,
Daniel
On 01/08/2018 09:17 AM, Klaus Darilion wrote:
Hi!
I installed the Knot 2.6.3 packages from PPA on Ubuntu 14.04. This
confuses the syslog logging. I am not sure but as I think the problem is
that Knot requires systemd for logging.
The problem is, that I do not see any logging of Knot in my
syslogserver, only in journald. Is this something special in Knot that
the logging is not forwarded to syslog?
Is it possible to use your Ubuntu Packages without systemd logging?
I think it would be better to build the packages on non-systemd distros
(ie Ubuntu 14.04) without systemd dependencies.
Thanks
Klaus
12:50
There is some confusion: Ubuntu 14.04 uses upstart, 15.04 is the first
version with systemd. I agree with Klaus that it would be reasonable
to build packages without systemd support for versions pre 15.04.
Jan
On Mon, Jan 8, 2018 at 10:44 AM, Daniel Salzman <daniel.salzman(a)nic.cz> wrote:
Hi Klaus,
I understand your problem, but we cannot provide two sets of packages
(with/without systemd support enabled). "Unfortunately" the majority of users
need systemd enabled.
Regards,
Daniel
On 01/08/2018 09:17 AM, Klaus Darilion wrote:
Hi!
I installed the Knot 2.6.3 packages from PPA on Ubuntu 14.04. This
confuses the syslog logging. I am not sure but as I think the problem is
that Knot requires systemd for logging.
The problem is, that I do not see any logging of Knot in my
syslogserver, only in journald. Is this something special in Knot that
the logging is not forwarded to syslog?
Is it possible to use your Ubuntu Packages without systemd logging?
I think it would be better to build the packages on non-systemd distros
(ie Ubuntu 14.04) without systemd dependencies.
Thanks
Klaus
--
https://lists.nic.cz/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/knot-dns-users 
23:29
On Mon 2018-01-08 12:50:02 +0100, Jan Včelák wrote:
There is some confusion: Ubuntu 14.04 uses upstart,
15.04 is the first
version with systemd. I agree with Klaus that it would be reasonable
to build packages without systemd support for versions pre 15.04.
if the question is about where the logs go based on systemd, knot
compiled with systemd enabled will still work on machines that don't run
systemd. its logs will simply go directly to syslog, instead of using
sd_journal_send (see src/knot/common/log.c).
in particular, if knot is built with libsystemd, but is running on a
system that is not running systemd, use_journal will be false.
When knot sends log messages to syslog, whoever is listening on /dev/log
will get them. if you *are* running systemd locally, then that will be
systemd-journald. if syslog is *also* present on the system, then there
is usually some relay/hook for journald to pass inbound messages along
to the traditional syslog daemon.
If the local admin wants syslog to see the messages when journald is
listening on /dev/log, this is something for the local system
administrator to fix, and not something for knot to deal with. please
don't divert time/energy into building, distributing, and maintaining a
without-systemd package.
--dkg
9 Led
9 Led
14:45
Am 08.01.2018 um 23:29 schrieb Daniel Kahn Gillmor:
On Mon 2018-01-08 12:50:02 +0100, Jan Včelák wrote:
On Ubuntu 14.04 there is no systemd as init-replacement, but as
something else, and gets installed as a dependency of Knot. Hence, I can
not use Knot without systemd. Hence, on Ubuntu 14.04 Knot always uses
journald for logging. And IMO this should not happen as users of 14.04
are now forced to deal with systemd only because of this unneccessary
build dependency.
I tried to prevent journald logging by masking journald (systemctl mask
systemd-journald.service). This solved my other syslog issues, but still
no Knot log messages in syslog.
There is some confusion: Ubuntu 14.04 uses
upstart, 15.04 is the first
version with systemd. I agree with Klaus that it would be reasonable
to build packages without systemd support for versions pre 15.04.
if the question is about where the logs go based on systemd, knot
compiled with systemd enabled will still work on machines that don't run
systemd. its logs will simply go directly to syslog, instead of using
sd_journal_send (see src/knot/common/log.c).
in particular, if knot is built with libsystemd, but is running on a
system that is not running systemd, use_journal will be false. If the local admin wants syslog to see the messages
when journald is
listening on /dev/log, this is something for the local system
administrator to fix, and not something for knot to deal with. please
don't divert time/energy into building, distributing, and maintaining a
without-systemd package.
Please don't introduce unneeded, useless dependencies - or what exactly
is the benefit of using systemd on Ubuntu 14.04?
regards
Klaus
15:47
Klaus Darilion wrote:
The hard dependencies on libsystemd-{daemon0,journal0} that result when
the knot source is built with systemd support enabled are not unneeded
or useless, they're needed to integrate with systems running systemd. If
I understand correctly these shared library dependencies are by design
entirely inert on systems that are not running systemd.
Perhaps the 'Recommends' on systemd should be downgraded to a 'Suggests'
(which are not installed by default), or removed entirely. Which does
not require building knot without systemd support, of course.
--
Robert Edmonds
edmonds(a)debian.org
Am 08.01.2018 um 23:29 schrieb Daniel Kahn Gillmor:
I don't see a dependency on systemd in the packages available from the
cz.nic-labs PPA.
knot 2.6.3-1+ubuntu14.04.1+deb.sury.org+1 from the PPA has the following
in its control fields:
Depends: […], libsystemd-daemon0 (>= 31), libsystemd-journal0 (>= 38), […]
Recommends: systemd
I don't immediately see an indirect dependency on systemd.
On Mon 2018-01-08 12:50:02 +0100, Jan Včelák
wrote:
On Ubuntu 14.04 there is no systemd as init-replacement, but as
something else, and gets installed as a dependency of Knot. Hence, I can
not use Knot without systemd. Hence, on Ubuntu 14.04 Knot always uses
journald for logging. And IMO this should not happen as users of 14.04
are now forced to deal with systemd only because of this unneccessary
build dependency. There is some confusion: Ubuntu 14.04 uses
upstart, 15.04 is the first
version with systemd. I agree with Klaus that it would be reasonable
to build packages without systemd support for versions pre 15.04.
if the question is about where the logs go based on systemd, knot
compiled with systemd enabled will still work on machines that don't run
systemd. its logs will simply go directly to syslog, instead of using
sd_journal_send (see src/knot/common/log.c).
in particular, if knot is built with libsystemd, but is running on a
system that is not running systemd, use_journal will be false. I tried to prevent journald logging by masking
journald (systemctl mask
systemd-journald.service). This solved my other syslog issues, but still
no Knot log messages in syslog.
Have you tried just not installing systemd? 'Recommends' are not hard
dependencies.
If the local
admin wants syslog to see the messages when journald is
listening on /dev/log, this is something for the local system
administrator to fix, and not something for knot to deal with. please
don't divert time/energy into building, distributing, and maintaining a
without-systemd package.
Please don't introduce unneeded, useless dependencies - or what exactly
is the benefit of using systemd on Ubuntu 14.04?
16:43
Hi Robert!
Am 09.01.2018 um 15:47 schrieb Robert Edmonds:
Klaus Darilion wrote:
Perhaps the 'Recommends' on systemd should be downgraded to a 'Suggests'
(which are not installed by default), or removed entirely. Which does
not require building knot without systemd support, of course.
Thanks for the hint. Indeed, removing systemd package works fine. And
suddenly logging works fine.
So, to make everybody happy I also suggest making systemd a "Suggests"
instead of "Recommends"
Thanks
Klaus
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7 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Daniel Kahn Gillmor -
Daniel Salzman -
Jan Včelák -
Klaus Darilion -
Petr Špaček -
Robert Edmonds